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	<title>Comments on: Smoke and mirrors, or good intentions?</title>
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		<title>By: Andy Powell</title>
		<link>http://blog.paulwalk.net/2009/02/20/smoke-and-mirrors-or-good-intentions/comment-page-1/#comment-355</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy Powell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Mar 2009 15:45:14 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I think that trying to draw out similarities between OCLC and Facebook is somewhat unfair tbh but I certainly agree with your closing paragraph - these things are complex and therefore a relatively simplistic, &quot;catalogue records want to be free&quot; argument isn&#039;t particularly helpful.

As I noted in my comments to Ed Summers on &lt;a href=&quot;http://efoundations.typepad.com/efoundations/2009/01/why-cant-i-find-a-library-book-in-my-search-engine.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;eFoundations&lt;/a&gt;, OCLC was a community solution - it emerged from the community to meet a community need.  Now, we can argue about whether it emerged in a different era and, therefore, whether is still has relevance.  Maybe it does, maybe it doesn&#039;t?  I think that remains to be seen.

But, as a membership organisation, if it doesn&#039;t meet the needs of the members, or if the costs of membership (by which I mean more than monetary costs) outweigh the perceived benefits, then presumably members will leave and it will collapse.

It seems to me that what tends to be missing from much of the OCLC/Worldcat discussion is proper consideration of sustainability which, at the end of the day, is one of the &#039;costs&#039; that members have to consider.  For community solutions to be sustainable, someone has to pay for them (unless we are really arguing that the role of the &#039;concentrator&#039; is no longer required - which I don&#039;t think is the case).

In a world of relatively plentiful, relatively sustained JISC-funding, it is pretty easy to say, &quot;everything should be free (even to people who would simply use the content to replicate the community-based service)&quot;.  This is less true for Talis of course, but then, as you note, it isn&#039;t quite clear where they are coming from on this anyway.  Indeed, I have no idea whether they make their own members&#039; catalogue records available for free in the way they seem to want OCLC to do (and I don&#039;t much care!).

I think this is one of the areas where there is a significant danger of JISC funding doing a disservice to the  community because the costs (both of startup and in longer term), and therefore any real measure of value to the community, get skewed by the ongoing availability of funding.

Interestingly... being somewhat outside the JISC fold now, I feel more acutely aware of sustainability issues than I was before.  Not necessarily any wiser mind you!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that trying to draw out similarities between OCLC and Facebook is somewhat unfair tbh but I certainly agree with your closing paragraph &#8211; these things are complex and therefore a relatively simplistic, &#8220;catalogue records want to be free&#8221; argument isn&#8217;t particularly helpful.</p>
<p>As I noted in my comments to Ed Summers on <a href="http://efoundations.typepad.com/efoundations/2009/01/why-cant-i-find-a-library-book-in-my-search-engine.html" rel="nofollow">eFoundations</a>, OCLC was a community solution &#8211; it emerged from the community to meet a community need.  Now, we can argue about whether it emerged in a different era and, therefore, whether is still has relevance.  Maybe it does, maybe it doesn&#8217;t?  I think that remains to be seen.</p>
<p>But, as a membership organisation, if it doesn&#8217;t meet the needs of the members, or if the costs of membership (by which I mean more than monetary costs) outweigh the perceived benefits, then presumably members will leave and it will collapse.</p>
<p>It seems to me that what tends to be missing from much of the OCLC/Worldcat discussion is proper consideration of sustainability which, at the end of the day, is one of the &#8216;costs&#8217; that members have to consider.  For community solutions to be sustainable, someone has to pay for them (unless we are really arguing that the role of the &#8216;concentrator&#8217; is no longer required &#8211; which I don&#8217;t think is the case).</p>
<p>In a world of relatively plentiful, relatively sustained JISC-funding, it is pretty easy to say, &#8220;everything should be free (even to people who would simply use the content to replicate the community-based service)&#8221;.  This is less true for Talis of course, but then, as you note, it isn&#8217;t quite clear where they are coming from on this anyway.  Indeed, I have no idea whether they make their own members&#8217; catalogue records available for free in the way they seem to want OCLC to do (and I don&#8217;t much care!).</p>
<p>I think this is one of the areas where there is a significant danger of JISC funding doing a disservice to the  community because the costs (both of startup and in longer term), and therefore any real measure of value to the community, get skewed by the ongoing availability of funding.</p>
<p>Interestingly&#8230; being somewhat outside the JISC fold now, I feel more acutely aware of sustainability issues than I was before.  Not necessarily any wiser mind you!</p>
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		<title>By: &#187; OLDaily per Stephen Downes, 21 de febrer de 2009 TIC, E/A, REF / PER&#8230;:</title>
		<link>http://blog.paulwalk.net/2009/02/20/smoke-and-mirrors-or-good-intentions/comment-page-1/#comment-359</link>
		<dc:creator>&#187; OLDaily per Stephen Downes, 21 de febrer de 2009 TIC, E/A, REF / PER&#8230;:</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Feb 2009 02:40:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.paulwalk.net/2009/02/20/smoke-and-mirrors-or-good-intentions/#comment-359</guid>
		<description>[...] els interessos propis, sinó des de la perspectiva del que més els convé. Paul Walk, Weblog, [L&#039;enllaç] [etiquetes: xarxes, dipòsits d&#039;objectes [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] els interessos propis, sinó des de la perspectiva del que més els convé. Paul Walk, Weblog, [L'enllaç] [etiquetes: xarxes, dipòsits d'objectes [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Steph</title>
		<link>http://blog.paulwalk.net/2009/02/20/smoke-and-mirrors-or-good-intentions/comment-page-1/#comment-358</link>
		<dc:creator>Steph</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Feb 2009 15:38:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.paulwalk.net/2009/02/20/smoke-and-mirrors-or-good-intentions/#comment-358</guid>
		<description>I think Facebook is walking a fine line at the moment, to be honest. Google and Amazon - yes -- good point! They do both deliver very niche and bespoke services, which allows them to attract many small groups rather than a single big following. Perhaps that&#039;s the key? Being able to serve niche audiences rather than appeal to a mass audience through a common theme? Or should I just shut up and make more tea?!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think Facebook is walking a fine line at the moment, to be honest. Google and Amazon &#8211; yes &#8212; good point! They do both deliver very niche and bespoke services, which allows them to attract many small groups rather than a single big following. Perhaps that&#8217;s the key? Being able to serve niche audiences rather than appeal to a mass audience through a common theme? Or should I just shut up and make more tea?!!!</p>
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		<title>By: paul</title>
		<link>http://blog.paulwalk.net/2009/02/20/smoke-and-mirrors-or-good-intentions/comment-page-1/#comment-357</link>
		<dc:creator>paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Feb 2009 13:40:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.paulwalk.net/2009/02/20/smoke-and-mirrors-or-good-intentions/#comment-357</guid>
		<description>Steph,
Hmmm. What about Google? Amazon? Facebook? Each of these is dominant in their space.... big, or &#039;concentrated&#039; seems to work.

Paul</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steph,<br />
Hmmm. What about Google? Amazon? Facebook? Each of these is dominant in their space&#8230;. big, or &#8216;concentrated&#8217; seems to work.</p>
<p>Paul</p>
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		<title>By: Steph</title>
		<link>http://blog.paulwalk.net/2009/02/20/smoke-and-mirrors-or-good-intentions/comment-page-1/#comment-356</link>
		<dc:creator>Steph</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Feb 2009 12:48:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.paulwalk.net/2009/02/20/smoke-and-mirrors-or-good-intentions/#comment-356</guid>
		<description>I wonder if there is an inherent problem with these large organisations and the way the web is going? They still seem to be run along the lines of large corporations but that level of control is now longer really working - their customers walk away. On the other hand, they need to work out a way of delivering services/making money in this fragmenting world. I think big is increasingly not the winner in the online world.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wonder if there is an inherent problem with these large organisations and the way the web is going? They still seem to be run along the lines of large corporations but that level of control is now longer really working &#8211; their customers walk away. On the other hand, they need to work out a way of delivering services/making money in this fragmenting world. I think big is increasingly not the winner in the online world.</p>
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